Growth persists despite housing and financial issues

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Subject Author Date
Growth persists despite housing and financial issues John Galt 07-22-2008
Posted by John Galt on July 22, 2008, 7:47 am
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_berry&sid=aFYsqGVoF5mI


Statements of Interest:

"With all the things going wrong -- including the official bear market on
Wall Street -- growth probably checked in at about a 2.5 percent annual rate
in the second quarter. That's about as fast as many economists think it
could grow on a sustained basis without generating more inflation."

"In spite of the hand-wringers, the U.S. economy isn't mired in a
recession -- and that's not just a technical matter of definitions. It's a
matter of how many jobs are likely to be lost as the country works its way
out of the mess created by the bursting of the housing bubble, the resulting
financial-market turmoil and soaring energy prices."

"Falling payrolls are usually a symptom of slowing economic growth. Hefty
productivity gains are making a difference this time, a contrast with past
slowdowns in which productivity normally fell."

"As demand slowed, businesses quickly cut the number of hours their
employees worked. That kept inventories from building and helped maintain
profits. The payroll reductions were possible only because workers still on
the job produced more."

"Even when factory output is increasing -- over the past 12 months
manufacturing production fell 0.6 percent -- there has been a loss of jobs,
Bernanke said, ``because the U.S. manufacturing sector is enormously
productive and its productivity has been growing more quickly that the rest
of the economy.''"

JG



Posted by on July 22, 2008, 2:03 pm
wrote:

>
>"In spite of the hand-wringers, the U.S. economy isn't mired in a
>recession -- and that's not just a technical matter of definitions. It's a
>matter of how many jobs are likely to be lost as the country works its way
>out of the mess created by the bursting of the housing bubble, the resulting
>financial-market turmoil and soaring energy prices."
>
>"Falling payrolls are usually a symptom of slowing economic growth. Hefty
>productivity gains are making a difference this time, a contrast with past
>slowdowns in which productivity normally fell."

But that's giving the bogus numbers credibility.
You need to have some understanding of the hedonic adjustments made to
the labor scene to appreciate that the employment numbers are greatly
over stated.

Seriously this is a very big deal.
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2007/07/the-accelerat-1.html
"Over the five month period ending in June, BLS B/D adds was a total
of 922,000 new jobs. During the same period, the actually head counted
Non-farm Payrolls (NFP) job creation was 709,000.

"That's right, fictional Birth/Death job adds have been outpacing
actually measured job creation by some 30%."
As they do every year, BLS Net Business Birth/Death Model deleted jobs
in January -- in 2007, it was 175k. That means that year-to-date, the
net fabricated BLS new jobs was 747k -- versus NFP growth of 871k --
that's 85.58% of NFP job growth.

"Example of the absurdity of the new Birth/Death model -- in place
since 2001 -- can be found in the specific employment sub-sectors.
Construction jobs are an obvious error (housebuilders added 12,000
workers), big jumps in education while school is out for summer is
another, ‘Leisure & Hospitality’ B/D jobs are a multiple of the net
category jobs created."

SO 922,000 "new" jobs are modeling assumptions and are changing the
numbers from negative to positive.


>
>"As demand slowed, businesses quickly cut the number of hours their
>employees worked. That kept inventories from building and helped maintain
>profits. The payroll reductions were possible only because workers still on
>the job produced more."

Which doesn't change the fact less people are working, translating to
less buying. Where's the consumer demand supposed to come from? Let's
remember too they're already tapped out with negative savings and
massive debt.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/07/20/business/20debt-trap.html

>"Even when factory output is increasing -- over the past 12 months
>manufacturing production fell 0.6 percent -- there has been a loss of jobs,

Again less consumption.

>Bernanke said, ``because the U.S. manufacturing sector is enormously
>productive and its productivity has been growing more quickly that the rest
>of the economy.''"

Making stuff with no demand?


Posted by John Galt on July 22, 2008, 3:53 pm

> wrote:
>
>>
>>"In spite of the hand-wringers, the U.S. economy isn't mired in a
>>recession -- and that's not just a technical matter of definitions. It's a
>>matter of how many jobs are likely to be lost as the country works its way
>>out of the mess created by the bursting of the housing bubble, the
>>resulting
>>financial-market turmoil and soaring energy prices."
>>
>>"Falling payrolls are usually a symptom of slowing economic growth. Hefty
>>productivity gains are making a difference this time, a contrast with past
>>slowdowns in which productivity normally fell."
>
> But that's giving the bogus numbers credibility.

That statement assumes that people believe that the numbers are bogus.
There's not much to say there, because if two people are working off
different sets of assumptions, they will come to two entirely different
views of reality. The debate, then, becomes more one of faith than of data.


> You need to have some understanding of the hedonic adjustments made to
> the labor scene to appreciate that the employment numbers are greatly
> over stated.
>
> Seriously this is a very big deal.
> http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2007/07/the-accelerat-1.html
> "Over the five month period ending in June, BLS B/D adds was a total
> of 922,000 new jobs. During the same period, the actually head counted
> Non-farm Payrolls (NFP) job creation was 709,000.
>
> "That's right, fictional Birth/Death job adds have been outpacing
> actually measured job creation by some 30%."
> As they do every year, BLS Net Business Birth/Death Model deleted jobs
> in January -- in 2007, it was 175k. That means that year-to-date, the
> net fabricated BLS new jobs was 747k -- versus NFP growth of 871k --
> that's 85.58% of NFP job growth.
>
> "Example of the absurdity of the new Birth/Death model -- in place
> since 2001 -- can be found in the specific employment sub-sectors.
> Construction jobs are an obvious error (housebuilders added 12,000
> workers), big jumps in education while school is out for summer is
> another, 'Leisure & Hospitality' B/D jobs are a multiple of the net
> category jobs created."
>
> SO 922,000 "new" jobs are modeling assumptions and are changing the
> numbers from negative to positive.
>
>
>>
>>"As demand slowed, businesses quickly cut the number of hours their
>>employees worked. That kept inventories from building and helped maintain
>>profits. The payroll reductions were possible only because workers still
>>on
>>the job produced more."
>
> Which doesn't change the fact less people are working, translating to
> less buying. Where's the consumer demand supposed to come from? Let's
> remember too they're already tapped out with negative savings and
> massive debt.
> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/07/20/business/20debt-trap.html
>
>>"Even when factory output is increasing -- over the past 12 months
>>manufacturing production fell 0.6 percent -- there has been a loss of
>>jobs,
>
> Again less consumption.
>
>>Bernanke said, ``because the U.S. manufacturing sector is enormously
>>productive and its productivity has been growing more quickly that the
>>rest
>>of the economy.''"
>
> Making stuff with no demand?

You know, you've obviously thought out this stuff you believe at great
depth, and then you toss out a statement like that. Geez.

EXPORTS.

JG


>



Posted by on July 22, 2008, 4:05 pm
wrote:

>>>Bernanke said, ``because the U.S. manufacturing sector is enormously
>>>productive and its productivity has been growing more quickly that the
>>>rest
>>>of the economy.''"
>>
>> Making stuff with no demand?
>
>You know, you've obviously thought out this stuff you believe at great
>depth, and then you toss out a statement like that. Geez.
>
>EXPORTS.


I have to wonder how much of the "growing exports" is really inflating
prices for wheat, corn, petrol, etc. Are we shipping much more or are
we simply shipping stuff that costs more?



Posted by John Galt on July 22, 2008, 4:42 pm

> wrote:
>
>>>>Bernanke said, ``because the U.S. manufacturing sector is enormously
>>>>productive and its productivity has been growing more quickly that the
>>>>rest
>>>>of the economy.''"
>>>
>>> Making stuff with no demand?
>>
>>You know, you've obviously thought out this stuff you believe at great
>>depth, and then you toss out a statement like that. Geez.
>>
>>EXPORTS.
>
>
> I have to wonder how much of the "growing exports" is really inflating
> prices for wheat, corn, petrol, etc. Are we shipping much more or are
> we simply shipping stuff that costs more?

There is a monetary component, but we're shipping a lot more, particularly
coal. You know that we're shipping more because the following businesses are
all increasing revenues:

1) Trucking (even despite fuel costs)
2) Railroads (huge runup in railroad earnings over the last 2 years, with
huge investments into the sector by Mr. Buffett.)
3) Ocean Shipping
4) Shipping Containers

If the growth in exports were stricly a monetary phenomenon, trucking would
be depressed, and the rest would be flat. Saw the CEO of a company on CNBC
the other day who manufacturers and leases shipping containers. Their
revenues are WAY up, and he said that they just can't build them fast enough
to meet demand.

JG

>
>



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