Dow 15,000+ by the end of the year?

Mutual Funds - Mutual Funds. 

get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content  add this group's latest topics to your Google content  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
Dow 15,000+ by the end of the year? NoEd 04-08-2008
Posted by NoEd on April 8, 2008, 9:29 am


http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/04/dow_15000.html



Posted by David on April 8, 2008, 12:29 pm
> http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/04/dow_15000.html

Hmmm... The article is going along quite well until he says that his
forecasting method uses fundamentals including the interest rate and
that the interest rate is now so low that the method predicts a Dow of
20,000! So, as he thinks this is the wrong answer, he uses a 10-year
treasury yield of 6% instead, to get a prediction of 15,000.

This means that instead of a predicted rise of 7,500 from the present
12,500 to 20,000 he arbitrarily changes the parameter used in his
formula to get a rise of 2,500 or 1/3rd as much! Is this how you do
economics in the USA now :-)

Are we supposed to believe this stuff? It tends to make the
traditional examination of chicken's entrails or the casting of
horoscopes look quite repectable and scientific.

Posted by NoEd on April 8, 2008, 9:40 pm
We will see. Would you like to take a stab at it?


> http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/04/dow_15000.html

Hmmm... The article is going along quite well until he says that his
forecasting method uses fundamentals including the interest rate and
that the interest rate is now so low that the method predicts a Dow of
20,000! So, as he thinks this is the wrong answer, he uses a 10-year
treasury yield of 6% instead, to get a prediction of 15,000.

This means that instead of a predicted rise of 7,500 from the present
12,500 to 20,000 he arbitrarily changes the parameter used in his
formula to get a rise of 2,500 or 1/3rd as much! Is this how you do
economics in the USA now :-)

Are we supposed to believe this stuff? It tends to make the
traditional examination of chicken's entrails or the casting of
horoscopes look quite repectable and scientific.



Posted by David on April 9, 2008, 2:20 am
> We will see. =A0Would you like to take a stab at it?
>
A prediction for the Dow at the end of 2008? Of course. No problem.
But bear in mind that a proper prediction has an expected value and a
standard deviation (SD)!

Checking with Riegels (Third Edition) for the historical statistics
over 1946-2001, he gives the average annual Stock Market capital
appreciation, without dividends, as 7.5% with an SD of 16.2%. Scaling
this for the remaining nine months or three quarters of a year,
linearly for return and as the square root for the SD, gives an
expected gain of 5.6% with an SD of 14.0%.

This means there is a 66% probability that the change from the present
value to the end of 2008 will be in the range +19.6% to -8.4% (1 SD)
and a 95% probability that it will be in the range +33.6% to -22.4% (2
SDs).

The present value of the Dow is 12,576.4 so the predicted ranges are

Expected value =3D 13,281

66% probability it will be between 11,520 and 15,041

95% probability it will be between 9,759 and 16,802.

So, a value of 15,000 is quite possible as it is only about 1 SD up
from the expected value, but then 11,520 is just as likely and 13,281
is the most likely.

This assumes that stock market returns follow a random walk with trend
and that the logs of changes follow a normal distribution. This is not
quite true of course as the distribution of returns is not really
Gaussian but tends to follow Hirst statistics which have fatter tails
than the normal distrivbution so that extreme changes are more
likely.

But, sticking with a normal distribution for simplicity, a Dow of
20,000 would be 3.8 SDs above the expected value, which is possible
but unlikely, with a probability of less than 0.1%

A quick check on the change in the Dow over the last year shows a
+0.1% gain, which is just 0.46 SDs down on the expected value, so it
is all consistent and as expected.

This is not as exciting as your article's claims of "Dow 15,000 by end
of year" but rather more scientific and likely to be true.

>
>
> >http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/04/dow_15000.html
>
> Hmmm... The article is going along quite well until he says that his
> forecasting method uses fundamentals including the interest rate and
> that the interest rate is now so low that the method predicts a Dow of
> 20,000! So, as he thinks this is the wrong answer, he uses a 10-year
> treasury yield of 6% instead, to get a prediction of 15,000.
>
> This means that instead of a predicted rise of 7,500 from the present
> 12,500 to 20,000 he arbitrarily changes the parameter used in his
> formula to get a rise of 2,500 or 1/3rd as much! Is this how you do
> economics in the USA now :-)
>
> Are we supposed to believe this stuff? It tends to make the
> traditional examination of chicken's entrails or the casting of
> horoscopes look quite repectable and scientific.


Posted by David on April 9, 2008, 2:31 am
. =A0Would you like to take a stab at it?
>
> A prediction for the Dow at the =A0end of 2008? Of course. No problem.
> But bear in mind that a proper prediction has an expected value and a
> standard deviation (SD)!
>
> Checking with Riegels (Third Edition) for the historical statistics
> over 1946-2001, he gives the average annual Stock Market capital
> appreciation, without dividends, as 7.5% with an SD of 16.2%. Scaling
> this for the remaining nine months or three quarters of a year,
> linearly for return and as the square root for the SD, gives an
> expected gain of 5.6% with an SD of 14.0%.
>
> This means there is a 66% probability that the change from the present
> value to the end of 2008 will be in the range +19.6% to -8.4% (1 SD)
> and a 95% probability that it will be in the range +33.6% to -22.4% (2
> SDs).
>
> The present value of the Dow is 12,576.4 so the predicted ranges are
>
> Expected value =3D 13,281
>
> 66% probability it will be between 11,520 and 15,041
>
> 95% probability it will be between 9,759 and 16,802.
>
> So, a value of 15,000 is quite possible as it is only about 1 SD up
> from the expected value, but then 11,520 is just as likely and 13,281
> is the most likely.
>
> This assumes that stock market returns follow a random walk with trend
> and that the logs of changes follow a normal distribution. This is not
> quite true of course as the distribution of returns is not really
> Gaussian but tends to follow Hirst statistics which have fatter tails
> than the normal distrivbution so that extreme changes are more
> likely.
>
> But, sticking with a normal distribution for simplicity, a Dow of
> 20,000 would be 3.8 SDs above the expected value, which is possible
> but unlikely, with a probability of less than 0.1%
>
> A quick check on the change in the Dow over the last year shows a
> +0.1% gain, which is just 0.46 SDs down on the expected value, so it
> is all consistent and as expected.
>
> This is not as exciting as your article's claims of "Dow 15,000 by end
> of year" but rather more scientific and likely to be true.
>
>
>
>

>
> > >http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/04/dow_15000.html
>
> > Hmmm... The article is going along quite well until he says that his
> > forecasting method uses fundamentals including the interest rate and
> > that the interest rate is now so low that the method predicts a Dow of
> > 20,000! So, as he thinks this is the wrong answer, he uses a 10-year
> > treasury yield of 6% instead, to get a prediction of 15,000.
>
> > This means that instead of a predicted rise of 7,500 from the present
> > 12,500 to 20,000 he arbitrarily changes the parameter used in his
> > formula to get a rise of 2,500 or 1/3rd as much! Is this how you do
> > economics in the USA now :-)
>
> > Are we supposed to believe this stuff? It tends to make the
> > traditional examination of chicken's entrails or the casting of
> > horoscopes look quite repectable and scientific.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Actually I should have said "Siegel" instead of "Riegels". I am
confusing the eminent professor with a long-dead German
aerodynamicist. Tsk, tsk!

Similar ThreadsPosted
Happy New Year!!! August 10, 2007, 1:46 pm
Plan for 30 Year Old? August 1, 2006, 3:01 pm
Meriwest CU 7.50% 1-Year CD April 22, 2008, 11:08 am
Roth IRA for next year question.. December 11, 2006, 6:23 pm
What shiny new ETF product can I buy for my Roth IRA this year? December 25, 2007, 4:58 pm
Gold Prices Hit 25-Year High April 27, 2006, 1:09 am
Which Fidelity account to park $20K until year end? July 10, 2008, 6:55 am
Mid Year Review -- Interesting Observations July 30, 2008, 4:50 am
Top ten Mutual Funds earned 56% last year? September 9, 2008, 12:27 am
Wall Street Journal - 2-year subscription $109 January 14, 2008, 12:40 pm

other essential online resources:
United States Treasury
US Securities and Exchange Commission
New York Stock Exchange
Tokyo Stock Exchange
Accounting and Tax Software Forums

Contact Us | Privacy Policy   XML SitemapXML Sitemap