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Posted by kastnna on January 14, 2008, 3:42 pm
>
> > For basic financial management Suze provides a primer that
> > is
> > GENERALLY accurate. However, if you apply her advice to
> > your exact
> > situation, and your situation is not perfectly typical,
> > you may find
> > yourself "mis-invested". Suze acknowledges this and is
> > even guilty of
> > it herself (she is invested almost entirely in
> > treasuries).
>
> It seems to me your subsequent remarks recant the last
> sentence above. Like others, I agree she is guilty of
> nothing but investing per her own risk tolerance.
The original intent of this thread was along the lines of whether
investing shows were worth watching. Suze was mentioned as an example.
My advice was that she has benevolent intentions and is worth
watching, but one should keep in mind that she gives broad
generalizations and one's unique situation may make her advice
unsuitable. Suze's personal investing style is a supporting example of
this. Because of her unique situation (wealth beyond critical mass),
she has an unusually (but appropriately) low risk tolerance. She does
not follow the general investing advice she provides on her show, yet
her investing is still suitable for her situation.
> Her site on annuities does not seem to be as black-and-white
> as you insist.
Seehttp://www.suzeorman.com/igsbase/igstemplate.cfm?SRC=MD012&SRCN=aoede...
I hope I am mistaken and she is taking a more welcoming approach to
variable annuities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd_3nCENMT8
In the video she specifically states NEVER purchase a variable annuity
and she then emphasizes with a "thumbs down" and an accompaying vulgar
noise from her mouth (she then re-stresses "never" for qualified VAs).
Hopefully the video can be found online (youtube?).
Strangely, in the same video, a caller states that her husband had a
qualified VA that dropped significantly in value shortly before his
death and they would have lost $70k had the VA not guaranteed her
principal. Suze then endorses that feature of the annuity and then
"approves" the investment. The death benefit feature is an additional
expense and will only prove beneficial in a minority of situations.
Suze regularly preaches against the expense of frivolous features like
this. I question anyone that is willing to use a term as absolute as
never and then immediately backtrack when called into question with
specific examples. At this point I don't where she truly stands.
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Posted by Elle on January 14, 2008, 4:07 pm
> The original intent of this thread was along the lines of
> whether
> investing shows were worth watching. Suze was mentioned as
> an example.
> My advice was that she has benevolent intentions and is
> worth
> watching, but one should keep in mind that she gives broad
> generalizations and one's unique situation may make her
> advice
> unsuitable. Suze's personal investing style is a
> supporting example of
> this. Because of her unique situation (wealth beyond
> critical mass),
> she has an unusually (but appropriately) low risk
> tolerance. She does
> not follow the general investing advice she provides on
> her show, yet
> her investing is still suitable for her situation.
I would really have to see examples from her shows or books.
Then I'd want to examine whether (1) she qualifies her
responses or otherwise makes clear the advice is
person-specific (though that should be obvious); and (2) we
have the same problem here at MIFP.
What do you think her general investing advice is, anyway?
And isn't there a reason we know it as "general" advice?
Namely, there are exceptions.
I'd really like to see some evidence you have read her
general investing advice.
>> Her site on annuities does not seem to be as
>> black-and-white
>> as you insist.
>> Seehttp://www.suzeorman.com/igsbase/igstemplate.cfm?SRC=MD012&SRCN=aoede...
>
> I hope I am mistaken and she is taking a more welcoming
> approach to
> variable annuities.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd_3nCENMT8
>
> In the video she specifically states NEVER purchase a
> variable annuity
> and she then emphasizes with a "thumbs down" and an
> accompaying vulgar
I see the thumbs down, which indicates to me some general
disapproval such as we all have. It's in sound bite format,
so it's the network that's forcing her into this mode as
much as anything, IMO. I do not hear her saying "never." In
fact, she says " when there are death benefits... in that
case it [VAs or VAs in IRAs?] makes sense."
Either way, I would not say her (or Scott Burns, or others')
have a "welcoming" approach. Orman like others does suggest
that rare instances when a VA is something to consider.
You sure you're not just looking to rip her apart as opposed
to first researching her actual stances? Sorry, but this is
instance two of you're misattributing notions to her.
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Posted by kastnna on January 14, 2008, 5:29 pm
> I would really have to see examples from her shows or books.
> Then I'd want to examine whether (1) she qualifies her
> responses or otherwise makes clear the advice is
> person-specific (though that should be obvious).
I have not and do not intend to read her books, but I do watch her
show on occasion. I have never heard her "[qualify] her responses or
otherwise make[s] clear the advice is person-specific". Perhaps she
does on occasion, but not regularly.
>and (2) we have the same problem here at MIFP.
Yes we do. That doesn't make it okay. We (collectively) have
reprimanded other posters for giving vague responses without digging
deeper into the OPs situation. That's a good practice here and should
be extended to ANYONE giving financial advice.
> What do you think her general investing advice is, anyway?
I THOUGHT it was buy and hold, minimize fees & expenses, yada yada but
perhaps I was wrong.
>From her 12 Steps to wealth: "To help you avoid experiencing those
huge losses, let me share another favorite rule of thumb: If you make
a lump-sum investment and it falls 8 percent, sell and reinvest the
money in another (hopefully better!) stock or mutual fund."
Apparently, buy high, sell low, and don't ride out market fluctuations
are her investment strategies.
> And isn't there a reason we know it as "general" advice?
> Namely, there are exceptions.
Of course there are exceptions. That was the whole point of nearly all
my previous posts. I have repeatedly said her advice is good and she
means well, but there may be an exception so be careful!
> I'd really like to see some evidence you have read her
> general investing advice.
Its not my goal or intention to prove to you that I am a Suze expert.
I have never held myself out to be. I even prefaced my original post
with "my $0.02" As I said, I have read over her website and
occasionally watch, but never read her books. Regardless I don't need
to be an expert to warn the OP that her advice may be general, not
specific. That was, and still is, the entire motivation behind my
original post.
> In fact, she says " when there are death benefits... in that
> case it [VAs or VAs in IRAs?] makes sense."
That's what concerns me. In the part of my post you ommited, I stated
I was leary of someone that regularly holds one stance and then
backtracks when challenged. Suze gives her "12 Biggest Money Mistakes"
on yahoo finance. #5 is "Don't buy a variable annuity, especially for
your retirement account" (her exact words, not mine). She goes on to
explain that high fees are a primary reason she opposed VA's. So which
is it? Does she advocate adding the expensive rider that most people
will benefit from or is she against the higher fees?
She should have stood her ground and told the caller that she got
lucky and benefited from the death benefit feature, but most people
are throwing money down the drain. I may not have agreed with her, but
at least her advice would have been consistent.
> Either way, I would not say her (or Scott Burns, or others')
> have a "welcoming" approach. Orman like others does suggest
> that rare instances when a VA is something to consider.
I didn't say she does take a "welcoming" approach. I said I HOPE she
adopts one. I am well aware she doesn't currently take that stance.
> You sure you're not just looking to rip her apart as opposed
> to first researching her actual stances? Sorry, but this is
> instance two of you're misattributing notions to her.
The intent of my original post that her advice is not individual
specific, so beware. If I did not convey that I apologize.
The entire rest of this is the result of my comment on her treasury
investing (in which I merely was stating that she is right not to
follow her general advice because her situation is unique). The more I
have researched her, the more I am regretting my statement that her
advice is "generally good". In addition to Elizabeth Richardson's
comment on her investing advice, the transcipt from her appearance on
Oprah (regarding ARMs) is borderline idiotic (but that's another
discussion).
Good day all!
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Posted by Elle on January 14, 2008, 6:15 pm
>From her 12 Steps to wealth: "To help you avoid
>experiencing those
> huge losses, let me share another favorite rule of thumb:
> If you make
> a lump-sum investment and it falls 8 percent, sell and
> reinvest the
> money in another (hopefully better!) stock or mutual
> fund."
>
> Apparently, buy high, sell low, and don't ride out market
> fluctuations
> are her investment strategies.
See
http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/200311/omag_200311_suze.jhtml
. Lump-sum investment is rather nebulous. I'd want her to
expand on this before judging it. Far more importantly, in
the next paragraph Orman says this does not apply to
retirement plan investing or any other plan where one is
investing via dollar cost averaging. These are important
qualifiers. I do not understand why you pick and choose with
her, losing context and blurring important distinctions.
Her advice to ride out market fluctuations and more with
which I think you'll agree appears at
http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/moneymatters/29964 .
We do not agree on your take on Orman. Further posts on this
seem wasteful of space here.
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