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Posted by Poe on March 6, 2008, 5:06 pm
Hello.
I posted here several months ago seeking advice regarding a 401k
rollover request that was mis-handled such that I lost money when it was
finally liquidated. At the time I asked for advice about how to formally
complain about that mis-handling. My original posting is at the end of
this message. This message is to provide an update, and to ask some
additional questions.
I followed the advice of some, to start with with a complaint to the
legal department of the investment firm that employed the individual who
essentially blocked my rollover.
I provided that legal counsel a packet of evidence that outlined step by
step the misconduct, including dates, emails with headers, summaries of
recorded voice mail messages, and so on.
Since then, two things happened.
First, out of the blue, I received a call from the 401K Plan
Administrator (my former employer), who had originally deferred my
rollover request to the investment firm employee who bungled my request.
She said, several months after my original request, that the amount of
money I felt I lost suddenly would be credited to my 401K account, after
which I could roll that over in addition to my original rollover amount
(the amount I felt was less than I should have gotten, but had rolled
over to get it out of this strange situation). I didn't expect to see
the additional money materialize, but lo and behold - it did, AND the
dates on the funds were post-dated to the date I liquidated that first
chunk of money (it finally rolled over in December)! I quickly rolled
the additional funds over before they vanished as mysteriously as they
appeared. This was never called a pay-off. Where they came from was
never explained. It was roughly the amount I felt I lost, though.
Second, I eventually received a letter from the investment firm's legal
counsel. The letter said my situation was reviewed, and everything I
requested was performed back on the date in October when I originally
requested it, and the amount was what it should have been back in
October. I found this quite surprising, because I have a clear paper
trail demonstrating that to be patently false. Even the mystery funds
mentioned above were post-dated to two months LATER than October - they
were post-dated to December. I guess my evidence was simply ignored.
So - I have my money, but I encountered with what appears to me to be
very shady behavior. I will follow up with a letter to the legal counsel
to let her know this wasn't lost on me. I am not sure what else, if
anything, I will do. However, I wanted to post an update here to find
out what others think. Is it industry practice to manipulate funds in
such a way as to make things look like they happened in a different
order, and on different dates, than they actually did? And, the glossing
over of clear evidence - does this sound "normal"? Does this sound like
illegal behavior, or just in poor taste? I'd be interested in the views
of others with more experience than I have in this area.
--------My original posting, from December of 2007:---------
Hello all. I did a quick search and haven't found any threads to do with
filing complaints, so I hope it is an acceptable question for this ng.
I feel that a 401K rollover transaction of mine was mishandled by an
employee of a brokerage firm that has some strange involvement in my
company's plan. In addition, I have a documented string of emails that
prove I was lied to on at least 3 occasions by this person (lies that
are a critical part of the overall misconduct). The misconduct by this
person cost me several thousand dollars in lost opportunity.
Does anyone know of the best place to file a formal complaint re:
misconduct of a 401K rollover request? The person is a certified
financial planner, but wasn't really acting in that role for me as far
as I can tell. I see that cfp.net has a complaint form and was thinking
of starting there anyway. Any advice on a better venue would be greatly
appreciated.
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Posted by Elle on March 6, 2008, 6:25 pm
Poe, if you have the time, then for the sake of potentially
many others, I think you should at least report the
investment firm's conduct to a higher authority. The
evidence as you present it indicates incompetence. Business
people, both those high up and low up, get slap happy with
power at times, thinking they are immune to being
responsible. Whence we get Enrons, Washington Mutuals and
the credit crisis of today, and similar. Your pursuing this
a bit further falls into the category of "doing the right
thing" AFAIC. When there is clear malfeasance or serious
misconduct, as you say you feel there has been, it should
not be tolerated. Not accepting this makes all our
investments and, to take it to an extreme, the entire
economy, more secure.
Your post is a fascinating update. If nothing else, it by
itself will help others.
--------------------------------------
Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
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Posted by Poe on March 7, 2008, 5:05 am
Elle wrote:
> Poe, if you have the time, then for the sake of potentially
> many others, I think you should at least report the
> investment firm's conduct to a higher authority. The
> evidence as you present it indicates incompetence. Business
> people, both those high up and low up, get slap happy with
> power at times, thinking they are immune to being
> responsible. Whence we get Enrons, Washington Mutuals and
> the credit crisis of today, and similar. Your pursuing this
> a bit further falls into the category of "doing the right
> thing" AFAIC. When there is clear malfeasance or serious
> misconduct, as you say you feel there has been, it should
> not be tolerated. Not accepting this makes all our
> investments and, to take it to an extreme, the entire
> economy, more secure.
>
> Your post is a fascinating update. If nothing else, it by
> itself will help others.
Thanks, Elle!
What higher authority would you recommend reporting this to? I did, in
parallel to my other activities, submit a complaint to cfp.net. The
first issue I ran into was that I needed to submit my supporting
documentation in Microsoft Word (.doc) format. I was using a Mac at the
time, and asked if I could submit documentation in PDF form instead. It
is superior, as it is less prone to modification. However, I never heard
back from them at all, and subsequent queries about this particular
broker return no trace of my complaint. When I search on his name to see
if there are any complaints against him (like mine), there are none.
So I suppose I can hire a lawyer, but my damages - the "lost
opportunity", have been returned. At this point, as you say, it falls
into the category of doing the right thing (which was my goal to begin
with - I never thought I would see that money I lost). Especially since
a lot of folks I consider my friends still work for the company using
this broker, I feel like I should say or do something.
Any ideas on agencies to report (what I consider to be) misconduct will
be appreciated.
--------------------------------------
Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.
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Posted by Elle on March 7, 2008, 12:43 pm
> What higher authority would you recommend reporting this
> to?
I defer to what Tad Borek wrote on this. Others reading here
may of course propose still other entities to whom you can
go. Stay tuned, of course.
In the next day or two, if I learn of other alternatives, I
will post them.
> I did, in parallel to my other activities, submit a
> complaint to cfp.net.
Have you called cfp.net at their toll free number,
800-487-1497 to discuss this? If not, consider this and get
them back in the loop, your time allowing. Certainly I would
document with the agencies Tad recommended that you had
attempted to get assistance from cfp.net .
Understood about not wanting to send things in Word format.
I suppose you might have to snail mail them, your time
allowing.
I agree that, because you have been made whole dollar-wise,
a lawyer is no longer necessary. No harm present = no legal
claim remaining. So now it's all about industry ethics. As I
bet you know, some industries have rules that are as tough
as any punishment a court could mete out. Heads can roll.
Also, as Kastnna pointed out in December, many inside
industry grasp well that incompetents in their business do
not serve them well.
Thank you for being an excellent citizen investor. If more
people responded as you did, we'd have fewer economic
meltdowns and time and emotion wasted in lawsuits that
should never have been necessary, and so forth.
--------------------------------------
Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.
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Posted by Tad Borek on March 7, 2008, 1:26 pm
Poe wrote:
> I did, in
> parallel to my other activities, submit a complaint to cfp.net.
That's not a regulator, it's a trade association that administers a
certification mark. Was the guy even a licensee of the CFP mark? If not
they have no authority whatsoever, they can't even suspend use of the mark.
-Tad
--------------------------------------
Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
which we respond. For all of the other tips and suggestions, see "FROM THE
MODERATORS: Posting to misc.invest.financial-plan", a weekly post now on the
Newsgroup.
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