Diversification as per Benjamin Graham

Financial Planning - Financial planning in general. (Moderated) 

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Subject Author Date
Diversification as per Benjamin Graham BGFan 03-01-2008
Posted by Ron Peterson on March 3, 2008, 7:05 pm
> ...
> I am not so clear about is what kind of diversification in the
> equity part of your portfolio does BG recommed? ...

He recommends diversifying among different business sectors.

He's not explicit on the number of equities because that entails
estimating the risk for each equity. If one invests in large firms,
the need for diversification is lower, but probably limiting the
investment in each equity to 10% will reduce the effect of an Enron
type of investment.

I have 32 different equities distributed among the tech, energy,
health, industrial goods(primarily residential construction), and
basic materials sectors. My largest investment in a equity is 12% of
my portfolio.

--
Ron

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Posted by Will Trice on March 3, 2008, 7:55 pm


Ron Peterson wrote:
>
>>...
>>I am not so clear about is what kind of diversification in the
>>equity part of your portfolio does BG recommed? ...
>
>
> He recommends diversifying among different business sectors.

Graham actually does not recommend this in _The Intelligent Investor_,
although Jason Zweig discusses diversification across sectors in his
commentary.

> He's not explicit on the number of equities because that entails
> estimating the risk for each equity.

I think you're conflating diversification with asset allocation. Graham
does not suggest the need for estimating risk in any sort of
quantitative way in either _Security Analysis_ or _The Intelligent
Investor_. But he does give some explicit numbers of equities that
should be held, although he does not really justify the numbers.


-Will

william dot trice at ngc dot com

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Posted by Elle on March 4, 2008, 5:11 am
(Hopefully I did not snip too much.)
> Graham does not suggest the need for estimating risk in
> any sort of quantitative way in either _Security Analysis_
> or _The Intelligent Investor_.

Not to split hairs over wording, I hope, but I would not say
this. Graham gives several basic, numerical parameters that
he advises an investor (defensive category) to apply to
reduce his/her risk in investing. E.g.

P/E <15
P/B < 1.5
Current Ratio over 2
Earnings growth of 33% over ten years, averaging the first
and last three year periods.
Some positive earnings in each of the last ten years

> But he does give some explicit numbers of equities that
> should be held, although he does not really justify the
> numbers.

I think maybe a distinction should be made between "does
not really justify" and "is circumspect due to the nature
of the science of economics."

Just the usual one-and-one-half cents.

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Posted by Will Trice on March 4, 2008, 6:56 pm


Elle wrote:
> (Hopefully I did not snip too much.)
>
>>Graham does not suggest the need for estimating risk in
>>any sort of quantitative way in either _Security Analysis_
>>or _The Intelligent Investor_.
>
>
> Not to split hairs over wording, I hope, but I would not say
> this. Graham gives several basic, numerical parameters that
> he advises an investor (defensive category) to apply to
> reduce his/her risk in investing.

I can see your point at least in the sense that Graham might have
considered a high P/E stock to be more risky that a low P/E stock
(although I would not call P/E a risk measure, I would call it a
valuation measure - related, but not the same). But in my reading of
his two most popular books, I have not seen any mention of using P/E (or
some combination of quantitative values) to determine the relative risk
of each holding and thus determine if you need to diversify further as
Ron suggested.

-Will

william dot trice at ngc dot com

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Misc.invest.financial-plan is a moderated newsgroup where Moderators strive
to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
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Posted by Elle on March 5, 2008, 5:04 am
snip as usual for conciseness and hopefully not losing
meaning
> I can see your point at least in the sense that Graham
> might have considered a high P/E stock to be more risky
> that a low P/E stock (although I would not call P/E a risk
> measure, I would call it a valuation measure - related,
> but not the same).

I believe I can appreciate how you do not call P/E a risk
measure. But it seems to me Graham most assuredly does
consider it so. That is, roughly, I think Graham is saying
High P/E = poor bargain = poor chance for increasing
further, relative to lower P/E stocks. Apply a number of
crude gages together (like low P/E; dividends for the last
20 years; current ratio over 2; etc.), and one can lower the
risk further. Or at least backtesting indicates thusly.

Perhaps it is a mere semantical difference between us.

> But in my reading of his two most popular books, I have
> not seen any mention of using P/E (or some combination of
> quantitative values) to determine the relative risk of
> each holding and thus determine if you need to diversify
> further as Ron suggested.

>From my reading of his writings, I agree. But I do think
that one might surmise Graham is acutely aware of how
imprecise estimating risk is, at least in the context you
suggest here with individual stocks. Graham is circumspect.
He does not speak as though it's all black and white. That's
TV loudmouth stock "analyst" Jim Cramer's job, anyway.

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to keep the conversations on-topic for financial planning. Other posting
guidelines include a request for brevity and another for trimming posts to
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