Disability and 401(k)

Financial Planning - Financial planning in general. (Moderated) 

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Subject Author Date
Disability and 401(k) nananana@ok.net 06-05-2007
Posted by nananana@ok.net on June 5, 2007, 11:19 am
Greetings,

I have a situation where I have a PCRA account for my 401(k)
provided by my employer. My 401(k) is 100% vested. My issue is
that I have a lifetime disibility that will likely force me to stop
working within the next five years and collect SSDI (yuck).

I understand it can be extremely difficult to withdraw funds before
I am 59 1/2 for any reason without incuring major penalties. I am
currently 35 so I will not be in there for quite some time.

My question is, should I stop contributing 15% to my 401(k) and look
for other liquid investments? I have heard of hardship withdrawals
for 401(k) but it sounds like it can be very difficult to
accomplish.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

MrNiceGuy


Posted by joetaxpayer on June 5, 2007, 12:19 pm

> I have a situation where I have a PCRA account for my 401(k)
> provided by my employer. My 401(k) is 100% vested. My issue is
> that I have a lifetime disibility that will likely force me to stop
> working within the next five years and collect SSDI (yuck).
>
> I understand it can be extremely difficult to withdraw funds before
> I am 59 1/2 for any reason without incuring major penalties. I am
> currently 35 so I will not be in there for quite some time.
>
> My question is, should I stop contributing 15% to my 401(k) and look
> for other liquid investments? I have heard of hardship withdrawals
> for 401(k) but it sounds like it can be very difficult to
> accomplish.

You should first confirm with your benefits dept. that there's nothing
stooping you from rolling the 401(k) into an IRA. I don't know that they
can stop you, it should be no problem. It's important that he rollover
paperwork is done properly, you want them to send the money directly to
the new IRA custodian, or sent you a check payable to "Broker as
custodian for benefit of MrNiceGuy", something like that. So long as you
don't take possession, and the employer should not hold 20% for taxes
since you are not withdrawing, just transferring. I hope that's clear.

Once in the IRA, you are permitted to make penalty-free withdrawals
(still owe taxes) if you are disabled. For this situation, you should
max out the 401(k) and tax deductible IRA if you have the budget to do
so. (Does your plan limit you to 15%? The MAX this year is $15,500).

Once you are not working, see how much IRA money is needed each year,
you may find it's all in your zero bracket, covered by your standard
deduction and exemption.

Any questions, come on back.
JOE


Posted by nananana@ok.net on June 5, 2007, 4:37 pm
Joe,

Thank You very much for that information. It is very helpful.

I don't see anything in my plan that would prohibit me from rolling
over my 401(k) in the Schwab PCRA to a Schwab IRA Rollover account.
I would just have to make it clear that it is in fact a rollover and
paid to the broker so no penalties are assessed. To answer your
question, my company does have a contribution cap of 15%. I will
most likely come close to maxing this year.

My follow up question would be regarding the timing of this. Would
it benefit me to move the money now or is it something that would be
safe to wait until the time that I come close to stop working? I
believe I would have the same fund choices that I have in the PCRA
account anyway.

Thanks so much,

MrNiceGuy


Posted by joetaxpayer on June 5, 2007, 6:09 pm

> My follow up question would be regarding the timing of this. Would
> it benefit me to move the money now or is it something that would be
> safe to wait until the time that I come close to stop working? I
> believe I would have the same fund choices that I have in the PCRA
> account anyway.

As long as you are working for that company, they would not allow an IRA
rollover, it's only allowed for people who've left, either disabled,
fired, retired. There is an exception if you're 55, which you're not, so
that's off topic to this point. I'd suggest maximizing the pre-tax
savings (consider the extra $4000 IRA if you can, even if it comes from
savings) and managing it (taxwise) after you no longer work.
Good luck,
JOE


Posted by Mark Freeland on June 5, 2007, 6:38 pm

> As long as you are working for that company, they would not allow an IRA
> rollover

While rare, in-service distributions are not illegal. It depends on the
terms of the particular 401(k) plan.
http://www.ameriprise.com/amp/individual/insights-resources/wp-230700.asp

> it's only allowed for people who've left, either disabled, fired,
> retired. There is an exception if you're 55

There is an exception on the 10% penalty for taking distributions before you
are 59.5, but that is only for people who have left their jobs after age
55. (But once rolled over to an IRA, one must then wait until age 59.5 to
withdraw without penalty.)
http://www.kiplinger.com/columns/ask/archive/2007/q0509.htm

Was this the age 55 exception you had in mind, or is there an age 55
exception for in-service withdrawals?

Mark Freeland
BnetOnewsX@sbcglobal.net


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